- Is Evangelism A Motivation For Stealing Children?
- Is Evangelism A Motivation for Stealing Children? Update
- Is Evangelism A Motivation For Stealing Children? Update 2
The Dominican consul general Wednesday rejected the claim from an American church leader that she thought her paperwork was in order when she attempted to take 33 Haitian children out of the country, saying he had told her it was not.
“I warned her, I said as soon as you get there without the proper documents, you are going to get into trouble, because they are going to accuse you, because you have the intent to pass the border without the proper papers and they are going to accuse you with kids trafficking,” Carlos Castillo said he told the group’s leader, Laura Silsby, during a meeting Friday.
Four hours later, Silsby and nine other Americans were turned back from the border. They were arrested and taken to a jail in Port-au-Prince.
“This woman knew what she was trying to do was not legal,” Castillo said.
A CNN reporter attempted to get reaction to Castillo’s comment from the jailed Americans, but they would not discuss the matter, responding to questions by singing “Amazing Grace” and praying.
Told earlier that many of the children had living parents, Silsby said, “I did not know that.”
She added, “In our hearts, our intention was to help children that had been orphaned or abandoned by their parents.”
But the interpreters the group had used said the conversations between Silsby and the parents in the Haitian town of Calebasse made clear to them that Silsby must have been aware of the children’s status.
SOS Children’s Villages, an Austrian charity, said that it has determined that at least two-thirds of the children are not orphans.
Authorities on Wednesday questioned a Haitian police officer who works at the Dominican Embassy about whether he provided illegal paperwork to Silsby and the other Americans to facilitate their efforts as alleged by interpreters who had translated for the Americans…
It seems that the Church group knew what they were doing was illegal.
The group leader is using the “in our hearts” defense to defend their taking children that were not orphans. (as if taking children that WERE orphans was OK)
This defense is often used by religious people to justify most anything. “In my heart” I believe I did the right thing. (right thing being anything and everything from adultery to murder to child stealing.)
Supposedly Americans believe in the rule of law. Even the Christian religion teaches that civil law is to be obeyed. (Romans 13)
While I am not ready to call the Church group traffickers in children I do hope they will drop the phony “we are like the Apostle Paul, in jail for the sake of the gospel, defense.” It is time they own up to their error, confess it, and ask for leniency from the Haitian government.
Hello
I too am questioning the motives behind this group’s attempt to “save the children”. Let me say first, I am a Christian, I served for 8 years in Mexico as a missionary, I am an ex military officer in the USAF (25 years), and I care deeply for the suffering of children around the world. But to try and leave a country with kids that YOU have decided need to be cared for, without obtaining the government’s permission, is unchristian and abominable. We adopted a Mexican boy in 2005, and we started the adoption in 2000. There were many times I was extremely frustrated if not fed up with the ineptness and slowness of the Mexican adoption process. But it NEVER made me desire to just cross the border with our son into the US. To be caught would have meant imprisonment, termination of the adoption, and much grief, heartache, and cost. Perhaps it is because many Americans have lost the FEAR OF THE LORD that they attempt to do things like this.
Eduardo,
Thanks for your comment!
Bruce
Eduardo, I always have trouble sorting out Christians’ motivations in obeying laws.
Are laws to be obeyed simply because they are laws? Then I take it you never break speed limits, and pray for God’s forgiveness every time you do (and possibly turn yourself into the nearest police station, requesting a ticket to salve your conscience in having virtually slapped Jesus’ face), right?
I don’t think you or anyone really believes this. I think you really only obey laws that “make sense” (i.e., the kind you believe actually protect other people) and/or come with penalties you’re unwilling to pay. Like everyone else – much as you may like to believe you’re different because you claim to be a Christian…
I’ll ask you another question, since you’re an ex military officer. I take it you believed your orders come from God, since every authority comes from God.
Let’s say you’re in a war. What should the other side do with *their* presumably God-given orders to kill your family/nuke your city? I knew a fervent God-and-Country vet who told me point-blank that the other guys should be following their orders also.
What did you think of the 1914 Christmas Truce (see “Joyeux Noel”)? Would you advocate such treason and disobedience to God also? Or were they right to kill each other?
Do you FEAR THE LORD enough to faithfully obey ALL of his commandments, or not?
Finding no way out of the often nonsensical stances I was forced to try and defend is what caused me to have to take a step back myself. I think it’s indispensable for a society to believe they will be judged on how well they “loved their neighbors,” but so much else now strikes me as ludicrous.
Come on, Bruce, give them a break. God must have told them to do it.
Desiring to do, and believing you are doing, God’s work is one thing, but Christians must ALWAYS beware of the HUBRIS of completely losing perspective while exercising their religious zeal. The HUBRIS of marching into a sovereign nation, however crippled and distressed, waving the banner of Christian love–have these people never read any history other than the biblical kind? The HUBRIS of wheedling parents into giving away their children with promises that cannot be fulfilled. The HUBRIS of putting these children through a nightmare–you can see it in their little faces, the shock and grief at being TAKEN AWAY. And guess what? The natives that “need saving” aren’t buying it!
Tell me, what is God’s punishment for HUBRIS?
On a different topic…I commend this website for the courage to help others break the spell of fundamentalist thinking and recover (or maybe learn for the first time) the knowledge that the rest of us are not just tools of satan.
I have known several fundamentalist believers, one of them intimately, and all I can say is that at its best, fundamentalism inspires people to do great things, but at its worst, it is nothing more than mind control. God help (literally) anyone stuck in the middle, unable to go forward or back, beset by the most monstrous guilt feelings, cut off from him or her self, unable to act authentically but instead lurching from one disaster to the next, blindly believing that anything of one’s self must be sinful and therefore incapable of making sensible decisions on one’s own, ruining relationships, and unable to help oneself, and all the while grinning that phony beatific smile like every salesman the world over. What a waste of human potential.
Many Americans believe that there is nothing better that can happen to a person that going to the United States. In their eyes, arriving in the US–with or without parents–means that a person has arrived to the promised land. They should live happily ever after.
Of course, you’ll have to dig for the most ignorant Americans to find such misguided folks. But then again, aren’t fundy evangelicals some of the most ignorant Americans?
Check out the WSJ story linked to in the other post. The kids would have stayed in the Dominican Republic, and my guess would be that they wouldn’t later have callously told the parents they couldn’t have their kids back, or see them again, if they’d asked.
They can say whatever they want now. Easy to say anything after you’ve been caught.
Hear, hear, Lorena!
Yes…..just like the criminals (Fine Upstanding Christians) who stole the life blood from the reserve is Canada from 1945 until they were shut down by a court order in 1979….
WITH LIES THEY STATED TO BOTH THE COURTS AND PARENTS THAT THEY WERE GOING TO PLACE THE CHILDREN IN?????GOOD CHRISTIAN HOMES???? Christian YES but far from being a safe desirable place for a child to be raised in.
They have shown the same attitudes as their forefathers….lies and deception is very prevalent within the so called Christian MISSIONARY SOCIETY. But this time the bastards got caught.
For decades “”””?????GOOD UPSTANDING CHRISTIANS?????””” came onto the native reserves and stole children from their homes. They falsified reports on the conditions of the children on the reserves….They lied to the courts falsifying documents and medical records….the listing of deception and atrocities is endless They, just as this grouping of criminals have done, utilizing deception and outright lies stole the children from their families (All traits of the GOOD Christian Churches That They Represented!!!!!!)
From these actions I can see that very little has changed.
The native children who were taken from their reserves faced a life of hell. Some were brutally beaten and terrorized by their captors; some were molested and used as sex slaves; all were stripped of their native languages and heritage….in other words they were put through hell on earth. THOSE THAT SURVIVED TO ADULTHOOD WERE BROKEN PEOPLE…..PEOPLE WITHOUT A HERITAGE….PEOPLE WITHOUT A FAMILY……PEOPLE WITHOUT A LIFE……
I should know for I was one of them that the GOOD CHRISTIANS STOLE!!!!!!!!! From the age of four I was molested on a daily bases….when ever I resisted I faced beatings that left me with permanent scars but the scars that are visible on the outside were only a small part of the damages inflicted by these animals.
Only after fifty years did the governments look into the actions that had transpired which is little help for those who were kidnapped and brutalized by the different Christian orders but with the actions taken against these animals I can see that a small amount of headway has transpired. My only hope is that these “””””FINE UPSTANDING CHRISTIANS????”””” ARE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW AND ARE SENTENCED TO THE MAXIMUM THAT THE LAW WILL ALLOW. THIS MAY BE A DETERRENT TO THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THEIR RELIGIOUS ORDERS AND PREVENT THE INNOCENT CHILDREN FROM BEING KIDNAPPED AND BRUTALIZED BY THE SO CALLED CHRISTIAN ANIMALS OF THE WORLD.
These animals do not care about the destruction that they cause. I remember how my brothers and sisters acted and felt when they were stolen (?????rescued from the devastating conditions that existed on the reserves?????according to the deceptive liars from the Christian churches) from our parents by so called church members.
Most of the children taken by these ?????””””CHRISTIAN”””””????? missionaries faced a life bound for total destruction. Torn from their families, their language, their homes, their identity and their heritage they struggled to cope in a completely foreign environment. One of my sisters, who was taken when she was four years old was repeatedly raped and beaten by the ????””””GOOD CHRISTIAN”””????? family that she was placed with. She died when she was eleven after the barbarian tried to abort a child that she had conceived through these rapes. The list of barbaric behavior is endless concerning the treatment of those removed by the religious orders…..
One of you stated (TRYING TO JUSTIFY THE CHURCHES ACTIONS AND DISTANT THEMSELVES FROM THE TRUTH) that it was only the catholic priests that committed these crimes against the native children…….This is totally wrong for almost every Christian order was involved in these acts. For your information the catholic priests were involved in the schools that were run by the government (And they did their fair share of damages but the greatest amount of offenses were committed by the Christian missionaries who were spreading their poison in the name of their barbaric religion.
Like in Haiti, they removed the children with promises of a better life. And like this group of criminals they lied to the parents and guardians about where the children were going and how they were going to be taken care of……typical deceptions of a Christian order who cannot be believed nor trusted.
Personally I would never trust any member of the so called Christian church…..time and time again they have proven themselves to be lairs and hypocrites who’s only obligation is to provide for their own sick ideals.
Michael Saunders
The Windwalker
I’m so sorry, Michael. I’m sure none of us can even begin to imagine your pain.
How were these people able to take you away? Were you kidnapped, or did they persuade your parents that they were able to give you a better life?
Michael Saunders The Windwalker – “[...]Personally I would never trust any member of the so called Christian church…..time and time again they have proven themselves to be lairs and hypocrites who’s only obligation is to provide for their own sick ideals.”
Zoe responds: I wouldn’t blame you. Not one bit. You have every reason to never trust the church again. As horrible as it is, I thank you for giving voice to your story and the stories of others who can no longer speak for themselves.
Zoe,
This is a pretty hard statement. Should we judge everyone based in the actions of some? Or, should people be judged individually based in their own actions, and merits.
There are also many Christians, and Christian organizations out there working very hard to save the lives of many children, and to protect them from abuse, and maltreatment.
Also, it’s worth saying that years ago, we did not have the means to investigate, and screen out people wanting to adopt, and work with kids who were abusers, and pedophiles, as we do today.
Now we have various clearances, police checks available, the benefit of state central registries, registering sex offenders, etc..
People that target kids for abuse can be extremely adept, and skilled at hiding their true motives. They may attempt to use the church, and other organizations. These folks can be ministers, and priests, but also school teachers, the well loved, and respected soccer coach..cub scout leaders..
This is the logical consequence of evangelicalism, at least if there is any logic whatsoever to evangelicalism.
YOU STUPID MISSIONARIES SHOULD BE ASHAMED FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. GO BACK TO HWERE YOU CAME FROM. JESUS CAN SUCK IT.
Grace,
How many times must we go over this? Evidently one more time.
Groups are made up of people, thus groups are responsible for what people DO in THEIR name.
When a soldier kills civilians in Iraq I am partially responsible because I am a US citizen. They are in Iraq on my behalf. Matters not that I oppose the war or am a pacifist. My only option is to work to change the group.
Those in the group who do good should be recognized for doing good. However that people in the group do evil reflects on everyone. In the case in Haiti…most Christian groups and many individuals have SUPPORTED and DEFENDED the actions in Haiti by the ten Christians. As such Christianity comes under condemnation and rightly so.
So Grace, here is your chance. In a clear, forthright manner condemn their actions. If you will not you become party to their sin. They are, after all, a part of YOUR group.
Don’t sidestep this issue by talking about the good other groups do, etc ,etc, etc, Deal with what actually happened. Did they do wrong? What about their actions after their arrest? Are they hiding behind their religion?
Bruce
Yes, Bruce, of course, they have done terribly wrong, and should be held accountable for their actions.
Since when does preaching the gospel relate to kidnapping kids from their parents? It’s craziness.
But, this is not at all what I was trying to address in my last post.
Here is what happened. I saw Windwalker’s post, and sensed the pain, and bitterness there. My heart broke, and I felt grieved, and worried for him.
And, of course, once again, I have fallen into “counselor mode,” on your blog., trying to sort things out with Zoe.
The other piece is, Bruce, our minds just do not think in the same way. Don’t get me wrong. I love, and respect you a lot.
But, to me, I would not suppose to judge the actions of an entire group of people based on the actions of some, or to hold all responsible.
To use an extreme example, men have been very much responsible for the oppression of women around the world. There’s no doubt of it.
I personally have had friends who were raped, and abused by men who should have cared for them.
But, does this mean, all men should be held accountable for this, or we should give the blanket advice to women, to “never trust a man…”
People that hold this kind of mistrust, and anger in their hearts, will be deeply harmed spiritually, and emotionally.. In the end, they are held captive by abuse. So, this was my concern. There you have it.
But, once again, I have not focused on the facts of the matter, as you suggested, fallen into the same pit.
Can’t seem to help myself.
Soo, I’m taking a “blog vacation.”
Pax, my friend.
Well, I guess I’m too late to catch Grace. You’ve also assumed way too much in my comment to The Windwalker. I am addressing his wound, his injury and the injury of those he knows/knew. My comment has nothing to do with you Grace or the Haiti situation. I am addressing The Windwalker.
You are trying to rescue him and save him from himself. So were his abusers Grace. Meet him where he is at, not where you want him to be.
Grace,
But, once again, I have not focused on the facts of the matter, as you suggested, fallen into the same pit.
Can’t seem to help myself.
Confession is good for the soul.
I find it interesting that one of the tenets of Christianity is that of community. The body of Christ. The Church, one Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. Unity. One in Christ. Blah, blah, blah.
Yet, let one of the body do something evil or sinful and then it is “every man for himself” Can’t judge US by what HE did….Blah, blah, blah.
The Bible says the Church is a body. Paul said How dare you say you have no need of this body part or that. Yet you jettison that person who is doing evil or sin…
I take my associations seriously. I have political, social, and community connections (groups) I belong to. They are my “Church” and when a member of my Church sins or does evil it reflects on me. I have a choice when this happens. Correct the offender or leave the group. Silence is not an answer. It seems among Christians though silence is the choice most often made. Don’t judge, they tell us. Theologically, I believe this is a distortion of the message about judgment. That said, I don’t care because I am not a Christian and I won’t be held to the Bible ethic, even a distorted one.
So I am quite willing to JUDGE and be JUDGED. I believe I have a rational mind and that I can discern fact from fiction. I can come to some conclusion about what happened in Haiti.
Bruce
Wise advice, Zoe.
Zoe,
Spot on.
We all have a story to tell. Some of us the story is not always pretty. We need to listen.
I am often told I should not be angry, upset, bitter, jaded,etc, etc. And they are right. BUT I am…and that’s my story.
Of course it is still being written. Who knows how it will end.
Bruce