- Is Evangelism A Motivation For Stealing Children?
- Is Evangelism A Motivation for Stealing Children? Update
- Is Evangelism A Motivation For Stealing Children? Update 2
(nine of the ten arrested in Haiti for trying to take Haitian Children out of Haiti)
Ten U.S. Baptists arrested trying to take 33 children out of earthquake-shattered Haiti say they were just trying to do the right thing, applying Christian principles to save Haitian children.
Prime Minister Max Bellerive told The Associated Press Sunday he was outraged by the group’s “illegal trafficking of children” in a country long afflicted by the scourge and by foreign meddling.
But the hard reality on the ground in this desperately poor country – especially after the catastrophic Jan. 12 quake – is that some parents openly attest to their willingness to part with their children if it will mean a better life.
It was a sentiment expressed by all but one of some 20 Haitian parents interviewed at a tent camp Sunday that teemed with children whose toys were hewn from garbage.
“Some parents I know have already given their children to foreigners,” said Adonis Helman, 44. “I’ve been thinking how I will choose which one I may give – probably my youngest.”
Haiti’s overwhelmed government has halted all adoptions unless they were in motion before the quake amid fears that parentless or lost children are more vulnerable than ever to being seized and sold.
Without proper documents and concerted efforts to track down their parents, they could be forever separated from family members able and willing to care for them. Bellerive’s personal authorization is now required for the departure of any child.
The orphanage where the children were later taken said at least some of the kids have living parents, who were apparently told that the children were going on an extended holiday from the post-quake misery.
According to the Canadian News the Church’s mission statement said:
The church group planned to spend only hours in the devastated capital, quickly identifying children without immediate families and busing them to a rented hotel in the Dominican Republic without bothering to get permission from the Haitian government.
The Church in question is Central Valley Baptist Church of Meridian, ID. (a Southern Baptist Church)
How has the Church responded to this matter?
…”In this chaos the government is in right now, we were just trying to do the right thing,” the group’s spokeswoman, Laura Silsby, told the AP at Haiti’s judicial police headquarters, where she and others were taken after their arrest Friday night trying to cross the border into the Dominican Republic in bus.
Silsby admitted she had not obtained the proper Haitian documents for the children, whose names were written on pink tape on their shirts…
…In Idaho, the Rev. Clint Henry denied that his Central Valley Baptist Church had anything to do with child trafficking and said he didn’t believe such reports.
He urged his tearful congregation to pray to God to “help them as they seek to resist the accusations of Satan and the lies that he would want them to believe and the fears that he would want to plant into their heart.”…
…Henry, the senior pastor, said the 500-member church wanted to help “because we believe that Christ has asked us to take the gospel of Jesus Christ to the whole world, and that includes children.”…
When asked about the charges against them, several in the group simply responded to ABC News, “Philippians 1.” The Bible’s first chapter of Philippians chronicles the apostle Paul’s time in prison for preaching the gospel.
Some Haitians resent the meddling of American Christians:
As the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, Haiti is in a difficult spot – it needs aid, but deeply resents foreign meddling. Many have mixed feelings toward Christian groups that funnel hundreds of millions into missions in Haiti.
“There are many who come here with religious ideas that belong more in the time of the inquisition,” said Max Beauvoir, head of Haiti’s Voodoo Priest’s Association, which represents thousands of priests and priestesses. “These types of people believe they need to save our souls and our bodies from ourselves. We need compassion, not proselytizing now, and we need aid – not just aid going to people of the Christian faith.”
This issue is not complex.
I don’t think for a moment this Christian group had any intent to traffic in Haitian children.
Stupid? Yes.
Ignorant? Yes.
Arrogant? Yes, and here lies the bigger problem. The Church group believes their Bible, their beliefs, their God trumps Haitian law. Because they believe they have a mandate to evangelize the world, and that includes children, they are justified in disobeying Haitian law. They are ABOVE the law. (this same approach is used to justify murdering abortion doctors)
They believe this is all a satanic plot against them. The devil had nothing to do with this. They are in jail today because of their own stupid, ignorant, arrogance and they have no one to blame but themselves.
Paul suffered for the gospel’s sake. He was jailed for the gospel’s sake.
The Idaho ten are jailed today for that which is of their own making.
I was struck by the same, Bruce. This is such a powerful story for a very difficult situation… how long with religious types get a free pass just because they “intended” to do good?
I’m also struck by the inherent racism of their actions… would these people have picked up white children if the earthquake had occurred in the US? Did they just assume that because the children were black and poor that they were without homes? I haven’t heard this bandied about in the news yet, and I’m sure that whoever says it will get blasted. Just a thought.
Hi Bruce,
I am profoundly thankful that I am FINALLY able to find one article…albeit a blog….condemning the actions of these ‘missionaries’. Nearly EVERY news source on television and the web seem to be reporting this as a simple ‘misunderstanding’. I am absolutely shocked that not one legitimate reporter has suggested that these people are using God as a scapegoat for their lawbreaking. And they admit that they had no authority, no paperwork, no clear understanding of how to handle orphans and traumatized children. But that’s just part of the story. The supposed orphanage in the D.R. was just a concept, not a reality. These children were being taken to a hotel in the DR to wait….for what and how long no one knows. The supposed CEO of the operation and the future orphanage has several tax problems and she, clearly, had no real plan for these children past stealing them…..’rescuing them’ from their own communities and families. Sure, there are many people all over the world who would give their children to someone who promised to provide them a better life, a future, basic food and education. Just because Haitian parents are impoverished and desperate doesn’t mean we should use our ‘faith in God’ to break up families. Seems like these people should have spent more time reading their Bible and less time basking in their own self-righteousness and arrogance. Jesus NEVER told them to break up families, to break the law, to promise impoverished, desperate parents the world in exchange for their infant child. Jesus told them to feed and care for the least of these. Turns out, they could have done ‘what Jesus wanted’ right there in Haiti….and they would have had the support of the Haitian and American people.
Kristen,
Thanks for your comment.
As with most things these days things become polarized quickly. The Church claiming they are being persecuted for the gospel’s sake. Religious groups jumping on their bandwagon. Other people see a conspiracy to steal black children. While I think there are some unanswered questions (and you raise some interesting aspects to this case) in the end I suspect I think we’ll find that these Church folks were well intentioned people who didn’t use the brain their God gave them. I sure hope this is all it is. Many religious groups do a wonderful work in places like Haiti. I would hate to see their work hampered by this.
Bruce
Bruce, well said! I couldn’t agree with you more. Regardless of what people think of the Haitian government being corrupt or otherwise. It’s exactly this arrogance that makes so many people around the world despise us. We Americans think, we can do whatever we want, where ever we want and there should be no consequence. We have no respect or regard for other peoples laws, borders or cultures.
I am not going to assume that I know what is in any person’s heart for only God knows that. However, I do know that as christians when we go out into the world we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. We must avoid even a hint of impropriety. The fact that they are a “religious” group does not make them somehow exempt from evil intent. Unfortunately we have heard far too often the stories of molestation that take place in the church.
No what these people did was simple. They decided to take advantage of the chaos in Haiti and exploit poor, desperate, parents for their own gains. “A better life for their children”… Now where have I heard that before… sounds a lot like the lies that were told to those parents on the shores of Africa in the 1800s.
Justgem,
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
We are often blind, as Americans, to our arrogance and how we present ourselves as a superior people with superior knowledge, actually superior everything.
Bruce
The absulate self centered nature of this reminds me of those who took the native American and the native Hawiian children from their parients.
Laura Selby your spoke person reports that “God wanted us to help thes children” so she and the rest of the zombies could steal the children. For God? Who the fuck do you people think you are?
Maybe “lips that pray” would have been better staying home and praying than trying to be “hands that helped”?
This is the way many Americans think. We are white, We are American, we are Christian…thus we are uniquely qualified to do whatever damn well we want to do.
Bruce
I’m one of the Native American Childern that were abducted by these animals….my life was pure hell but the so called christians bowed to their god seeking praise for rescuing me from the pagen lifestyle that I was being raised under!!!!!!!!
Some simple stats:
Of 127 childern taken from my reserve:
21 died at their own hands before the age of 13 (SELF INFLICTED INJURIES RESULTING IN THEIR DEATH)
76 LANDED IN JAIL OR PRISON BEFORE THE AGE OF SEVENTEEN
106 SUFFERED FRFOM ALCHOL OR DRUG ADDICTION
102 had numerous broken marrages
92 had difficulty obtaining or holding a job
96 dropped out of school not obtaining high school
Now compare this listing to any group of typical american born childern..
A survivor of a so called christian rescue from a barbaric society!!!!
The Windwalker
I’d like to read some more on this. Where can I find this story?
I read The Missionaries: God Against the Indians back in the 90s, and remember a few accounts of people stealing children with the excuse that it would save them from Hell, so why not!
http://www.amazon.com/Missionaries-God-Against-Indians/dp/0140131752
I don’t know the status of the 33 kids these people were trying to take with them, so I don’t have an opinion on their actions, but thought everyone’s reverent views of “Haitian law” were just hilarious.
It’s “Haitian law” that was responsible for these almost 200,000 deaths in the first place. A recent quake in California that was twice as powerful only killed 63 people, and even the 1906 quake (8 times as bad) only killed 3000. Numbers should be adjusted for population density, but you get the idea:
http://www.creators.com/opinion/walter-williams/haiti-s-avoidable-death-toll.html
My guess would be that God’s Agents to Do You Good (to whom the missionaries apparently hadn’t given their due respect) were upset at not having received their bribes.
Both Christians and atheists give these criminals too much credit, albeit for different reasons.
I am a parent of a child whom I adopted from Guatemala nearly 8 years ago. While I understand that the folks who were trying to rescue Haitian children were trying to help them, to do the right thing, they made a terrible mistake. It’s critical that people trying to adopt children or who take children from another country follow procedures to ensure that they are not, in fact, stealing the children, even if that is not their intent. I hope that these good folks who have been arrested are excused for their mistake and are not punished severely by the government of Haiti or the U.S. But they and others from the United States need to recognize that we should never try to adopt or remove children from their homes without following carefully prescribed procedures.
I send my best wishes to them, that they get through this ordeal and can go on to help Haitian children in ways that are truly beneficial and won’t land the helpers in prison.
Sandy,
Thanks for adding your important perspective to this post..
I don’t doubt the sincerity of the Church. I have been there years ago. Good intentions. Sometimes our good intentions overshadow common sense.
Bruce
Good response, Sandy
Nothing more than greedy Americans raiding a helpless country.
Oh they knew what they were doing but, they knew hiding behind the name of a church they could get away with what amounts to looting Haiti of it’s kids.
Not only do some Haitians resent the meddling of American Christians but many Americans do too.
What makes people think they can do this, is it because their Americans or because their christians that they think they know what’s best for everyone else.
Haiti don’t have the ability to go after this gang of looters so I’m sure they’ll walk away but I hope someone makes an example of this group.
The simple truth is that being a disaster victim does not reduce you to the status of property. These children cannot just be scooped up and taken away, as one would a coin from the sidewalk. Those who value life, respect freedom, and love God must act accordingly. Thou shalt not steal….that includes stealing children.
Bruce, if that is your real name, you are leaping to a whole new area when you join the rationale of these people to those who assasinate abortion doctors. they have never said their intensions were above the law. they even admitted they did not get proper documents from Haitii but it seems pretty clear from all reports that the Haitiian government is for all intents a purposes out of business. it has never been determined if they knew that their was a law or office from which to obtain ‘the paperwork’. maybe, some more due deligence was in order on their part but these people were not trying to do more than they said they were doing ‘the right thing’. it is a shame too, because people of faith are really stepping up to this crisis but even a generous person will withdraw their hand if it is bitten. i hope you and the voodoo priest rethink this issue before you cause some real damage.
Sure they did and I quote “Silsby admitted she had not obtained the proper Haitian documents for the children”. Thus they believed they were above the law because their law, God’s law trumps all other law.
They chose to do what they did. I don’t question their motive. I question their intelligence in this matter.
The logic is the same. God’s law trumps man’s law. Do the right thing is more important than doing the legal thing. Thus I see a connection between murdering abortion doctors and stealing Haitian children. The logic is the same.
Why would you question my name?
Nothing to hide on this blog.
Bruce
How corrupt does a government have to be, before it is just another entity to be paid off, and therefore not really a government? So what, other than their own consciences (which in this case stemmed from their religious views) can they be expected to have turned to?
The link I gave below mentioned its third to last ranking in the 2007 Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index.
Here’s the latest one:
http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table
Tied for 168 out of 180. A small improvement, or maybe a few other places have just gotten worse.
Here’s an older story on the illegal rescue of Romanian orphans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ISSgupUtpU&feature=related
In one way or another, orphans represent cash flow to those in a position to authorize their release in these countries. In Romania the state sent a subsidy they didn’t want to lose (sadly, something I’ve also heard said about some state-run orphanages here), and in Haiti they probably want to be bribed:
“…commercial disputes are settled out of court often through the bribery of public officials; settlements are purchased.”
Does anyone think the Haitian authorities really give a dam about their kids, either?
Who can watch this video and then say Romanian law should have been respected and the kids abandoned? (It’s been said, though, that because Upton’s actions made the Romanian “authorities” look bad, they promptly took steps to restrict access to their facilities, making their plight even worse. No cameras, no more stories to tell, no more perceived problems. This is one reason many charitable organizations try to operate “under the radar.” But that’s another issue.)
I don’t know the situation well enough, but would guess that these people took steps to try and make sure these orphans were really orphans before they did what they did. There surely isn’t any lack of those, now, is there?
When the law is corrupt, I would hope people *would* think they are above it. Nobody would complain if an orphan were taken out of North Korea without proper documentation, either.
I have been a missionary in Haiti for 10 years now and it is unbelievable to think that these (quote 10 missionaries) thought they could take 33 children across the border to DR. What were they thinking? Really makes it hard for real missionaries to carry out their work. All I can say is they have an idiot for a leader who’s action has put them in jail and facing charges of kidnapping. Way to Go you bunch of do-gooders,
I am sure you think you were doing God’s work. Wonder what everyone else is doing there?
Wow, David. What ever happened to letting your words be seasoned with salt that it might administer grace to the hearers?
These people are not full time missionaires – this was simply a church team trying to help, albeit they had not thought through the plan thoroughly. And, yes, most of us are wondering what were they thinking. But let’s keep our heads (and hearts) about us as we respond.
Actually, I prefer David’s response. It is seasoned with salt. Perhaps that’s why the honesty of his words stings you so much?
Just how many of these children will end up as stars in some child porno flick?????? or abused and beaten by some sadistic ?????CHRISTIAN???
Or end up completely broken and on the streets or in prison due to being torn from their family friends heritage and homes?????
Just how many of these children will end up committing suicide after being used by these so called Christians then abandoned like yesterday’s garbage?????
I’ve been there!!!!!!!! I’ve lived their life!!!!!!!And I’m one of a very few who survived!!!!!
The Windwalker
David,
Thanks for commenting. Good to hear from someone that has been there.
Bruce
Come on, folks. These people are not criminals.
While I disagree with some of Bruce’s comments, I think he was right on when he said that sometimes our good intentions lack common sense.
What the members of this group need to do right now is humble themselves, admit their zeal to help was not directed properly, ask forgiveness. Though not intended they have created an offense and need to admit that and seek forgiveness. It is wrong for them to take on the mantra that God sent them and will work things out. That attitude does show pride – not faith – and creates huge difficulities for missionaries in the land. They need to find out the proper channels to help and show their good faith by following the guidelines the Haitian government sets forth. This should be a huge lesson to American Christians. Our Savior requires us to render to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s. While this is talking about taxes, I believe the principle can be applied in this instance as well. We can’t run ahead of a another soveriegn nations laws regardless of our heart’s good desires or the chaos and urgent need of the moment.
The Haitian government needs to ease up – the people of Haiti need help. And the world has responded. Christians and churches have responded. Everyone involved needs to step back and take a look at this for what it is – well intentioned, though misdirected, people desiring to help a people devastated whose government has called out to the world to send aid. The government responding in an inapporpriate proportion is just as sad as this group of US citizens orginal actions.
Slap their hands, band them from Haiti for the rest of their lives if you feel that is needed, but send them back to their families and loved ones.
Oh I suspect they’ll end up home eventually. Likely the U.S. government will intervene and they’ll work something out.
Maybe they can hold them until each and every one of those children is home and back to their families and loved ones too eh?
Kathie,
If they did the same thing in the US would they be criminals? When you are in another country you agree to follow their laws.
It seems we have a double standard when it comes to Haiti. ( and I wonder if we don’t think Haitians are basically poor, uneducated blacks that need Uncle Whitey to do everything for them) I have no illusions about how Haiti really is. I am a long time fan of Dr Paul Farmer. I have done a fair bit of reading about Haiti. My wife traveled there in the 1975. Yet, we expect OUR laws to be f9llwed, but it is Ok t oviolate Haitian law. We expect Americans to be allowed to do things in Haiti that would be reprehensible if done in this country.
The Haitian government is rife with corruption but then so is the American government. Adopting children is a capitalistic dream in this country. Some adoptions can cost upwards of 30,000.00 Children are being shopped and traded in our own country. We have our own problems.
Christian Churches should be on the ground in Haiti doing humanitarian work not Evangelism. The pastor of the Church in question said this was an evangelistic endeavor, an act of preaching the gospel. (and their jaining akin to Paul’s for preaching the gospel)
They will be lauded as heroes. A book will be written. “The Haitian Ten. Suffering for the Sake of the Children” Perhaps a movie. All will be well.
However the rest of the world will see these people as well intentioned American Christians that acted irresponsibly and endangered rather than helped the children they intended to help. Hopefully they learned an important lesson about following civil law.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Bruce,
I don’t for one moment think that their actions were all right in this situation and would not be okay in another time, place, etc.
But I do stand by my supposition of these folk being well intentioned but irresponsible in their actions. However, regardless of their intentions, they did wrong and must accept responsibility for their actions. And I agree. Hopefully they (and others) have learned a huge lesson.
The people of Haiti need so much help. Hopefully, those in power will have the resources to help the children that have been left homeless and without family. All of us know of folk who have with joy welcomed chosen children into our hearts, homes and lives. There will be much for those who have compassion in their hearts to do for a long, long time. Some of our young people just spent time in Haiti last summer helping to build a school room. I hope it still stands.
WITH COMMENTS SUCH AS…AND i QUOTE “Slap their hands, band them from Haiti for the rest of their lives if you feel that is needed, but send them back to their families and loved ones.” SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE REGARD FOR BOTH THE LAW AND THE RIGHTS OF THOSE THEY TRIED TO SMUGGLE OUT OF THEIR HOMELAND!!!!!!!
Yes send them home and ban them from ever leaving the USA again…but after they have been sentenced to a long term in a Hasian Prison and served their full time….. The government and the courts should make a harsh example of these criminals and their illegal actions and punish them to the fullest extent of the law so/as other members of their organization will think twice of repeating their illegal actions.
Even though I am against the death penalty I personally feel that it would be appropriate in this matter just as a deterrent to those who follow in their path!!!!!!
Just how many children have been exploited by groups such as these and just how many of these children have faced a life of “”"HELL ON EARTH”"” due to the actions of the different criminal religious orders masquerading as Christians????? or is this what Christianity really is????? Past history has a way of repeating itself!!!
The Windwalker
[...] Gerencser at Restless Wanderings writes about the group’s religious motivation: Arrogant? Yes, and here lies the bigger problem. The Church group believes their Bible, their [...]
Thanks for publishing this woeful tale! I am saddened/angered by the total lack of insight into the children’s basic rights of knowing who they are, and where their roots are! As the parent of 3 now adult legally adopted kids from a South American country I know first hand how important that is… Get a grip!! If you don’t get it, see “August Rush”, a powerful movie, not too sentimental, just the basic truth about children needing to connect at whatever age. True, some won’t want to, but they have that basic right.
And their statement that “they talked to a Haitian police officer in the street… and so thought they were doing something legal… give me break!! Either they are totally naive ugly Americans, or pretend to believe that Haiti is a village with no one above an elementary school education… May this be a wakeup call for any and all do gooders who think being American makes them above the law, and being Christian qualifies them to break it.
Jonathan,
Thanks for commenting.
I really enjoyed the August Rush movie..
Bruce
Couldn’t it be as simple as them not understanding the language, asking a few bilinguals if they’re orphans and mistakenly having been told they all were?
Dumb and reckless, sure (but it probably didn’t feel that way at the time because they’d probably “prayed about it” and unanimously “felt led” by the unmistakeable Voice of God.)
When I listen to what atheists assume about Christians (holy rollers in it for personal gain, or whatever), it doesn’t sound much less ridiculous than the superficial notions fundies have about atheists (they know they’re wrong, but are too blinded by their hatred of The Baby Jesus, or some similar nonsense.)
I may find out differently, but even assuming the worst about these people I can’t see how they could have thought it in anyone’s interest to just kidnap 33 kids they knew had parents, when there are so many real orphans in the country.
Along these lines, I’m reminded of an old story of a couple of Bible smugglers who made no attempt to hide them from the border guards (possibly because they thought any form of deception would have violated a moral absolute, and God surely would stand behind them), watching as they flipped through the pages. They were then let through – a miracle had happened. God had blinded their eyes, they knew, as they whooped it up. Wait’ll they tell the folks back home! Just let the doubters try and explain this one!
Of course God’s Agents to Do Them Good (Romans 13:1-7) just put a tail on them and eventually ferreted out all the house churches they’d made their deliveries to.
Faith can make a person really stupid, sometimes.
ISAR,
I think the theology behind all of this is what caused the Church folks to do what they did. I don’t think they are evil.
Their worldview begins with a God who calls each of them to take the good news of the gospel to the entire world. Rescuing orphans, even if it means breaking the law, is Ok because they have a higher calling. This happens all the time, all over the world. It just doesn’t make the news.
As a pastor I did things that were illegal because there was a “greater” good at stake.
I none Church I pastored we had a Mexican man (illegal) whose wife was still in Mexico. To get her to the US it require bribing a Border Patrol agent. The elders agreed that it was proper to do, for the “greater” good. I opposed this act….and was left out of the loop as to what followed. The bribe happened. The women was reunited with her Christian husband.
Bruce
Disgusting. The “right thing”?? What do these people know about “the right thing”?? THEY STEAL CHILDREN.
Looking at this from an (somewhat) unbiased global perspective, it appears to me that the right-winged religious fanatics in this country can be realistically and ligitimately compared to the right-winged religious fanatics of the middle east, in that they apparently have no more regard for the laws of man than do the suicide bombers in Iraq. Either way, some mother looses a child. Whether or not that mother willingly gave up that child is of no consequence…..the laws of Haiti (and of the bible) make it clear that such decisions are outside the purview of civilians.
When the religious right decides it is time to disregard the laws of man in favor of its own oft-distorted interpretation of what is “right”, I believe it is time to eradicate the religious right. We are attempting to do exactly that in the rest of the world. It’s time we consider the damage being done in our own backyard and take action as appropriate.
you have our prayers, God is the final judge of your intent and actions
Actually the Haitian legal system is the final judge in this life. (Romans 13)
Bruce
Bruce, you have been reading and paying attention to the words of Christ and Paul. You must be one of those realists who are so hard to find these days. Thank you.
They were kidnappers/abductors plain and simple.
ABC News reported that they tried to get children from several orphanages and were told no in fact one person said they were suspicious of them. A news reporter also told them that what they were doing wasn’t right and they would be seen as child abductors. So what did they do – they go to the countryside where people are poor and desperate and there’s less scrutiny and they showed them a postcard where their children would go (pool, etc.) which was a lie because the place doesn’t exist.
I’m surprised at how people keep saying they had “good intentions”. There’s an old saying “the road to he!! is paved with good intentions”. If their intentions were so good why didn’t they assist at the many orphanages they visited trying to get children. Why didn’t they give money/food etc. to help the families instead of taking their children?
If you read their website you will see they don’t have anything in place – they’re using this crisis to raise money.
Stay Home, Paint the Nursing Home
It is inherently sad that the goal of this “team” from Central Valley Baptist Church is to adopt a myopic view of aid. There is no intent to aid the families (moms, dads, grandparents, neighbors, etc…). There is a fundamental neglect of relationship. The premise of the “team” is to take some children so the “team” can provide what they deem to be the Christian thing to do. I suspect that conversion is the prime motivator and physical care is secondary.
This is a profound violation of the Gospel. In the book of James this very action is decried. Even worse is the benign neglect of the families from whom these children were “borrowed”. Not only do the families of these children struggle with overwhelming poverty, national turmoil and now a cataclysmic event, but they were led to believe that they must endure the loss of their children. I would have loved to hear the speech given to these parents. Perhaps it would have been,
“Give us your children, we can do what you can’t do… (shame on you),
we will provide a wonderful life for your children… (you thought it before and now we confirm that you are all failures),
You can come see them whenever you would like…(use your free air miles or drive your family car over the border anytime you want to say hello),
We will return them to you when things are better… (of course we are not committing to making things better, you are on your own, our job is to convert your children).”
Now, how could any loving parent turn down that offer?
There is a poignant statement by Jesus, “as you have done unto the least of these…, so you have done unto me.” Euphemistically and literally this action has grieved the heart of God, as Children would have been taken, (I know, some would say “given voluntarily”) from their families. The pain of these families and their children is multiplied by such actions.
I applaud the actions of those who came before the quake, who have ramped up their care in the aftermath of the quake and will be there long after the quake is forgotten by most. Your ministry of presence, relationship, and real help is a witness to the love of God which is made transparent, genuine and authentic. Thank you. May I suggest that those who want to duck in grab a quick “I did good” fix: and then high tail it out of there, stay home and paint a nursing home.
Peace,
DM
DM,
Thank you for adding to the discussion.
A part of the problem is the way Evangelicals do missions. In many ways they still use the methods of the white, colonialist missionaries of a century ago. Methods that are racist and counterproductive.
Bruce
I served as a short-term medical missionary in Haiti and I know well how the region’s poverty can shock and overwhelm the average American citizen. I’m saddened by the entire situation, not only for the members of the team but for their families as well. I’m also saddened by the fact that Christians seem so quick to throw stones at each other when we should be praying for each other. I’m not privy to all the facts in this situation so I will pray rather than judge and love rather than criticize my brothers and sisters. In the end, Jesus Christ will sort out of the true motives of all involved (including those who wrote on this blog).
Rusty,
I am a former Christian.
I have no expectations of any future sorting out of my motives.
That said…you remind me of the typical Christians response….no matter how much information is available, no matter how clear the facts are….Don’t judge.
Sufficient facts are available, including the words of those involved to come to some conclusions.
Bruce
I always love the ‘don’t judge’ card people pull, Christian or not. I have a brain and making judgments is one of its uses. Judging allows me to look at a situation, collect information and make rational choices based on the knowledge available. What does ‘don’t judge’ mean anyway? That I am not supposed to have an opinion concerning someone’s public behavior? These people broke the law for god’s sake and some moral and ethical codes as well. More information…http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/1067267.html. The group’s leader, Laura Silsby has quite a record and seems to be someone who believes that rationality and rules do not apply to her. Not the type of person I would want to be responsible for my children or anybody else’s, no matter her motives.
It’s true, I am not going to judge someone for what they do in the privacy of their own home as long as it is not bringing harm to myself or someone else but when people behave stupidly and irresponsibly and break laws created to protect the innocent, then you can sure as hell believe there is going to be some judging going on and rightly so.
Motives don’t get any purer than mine.
The pink dildo needs a halo, methinks.
Russell, thank you for your post and your voice of reason.
Jack
There is little reason in suspending rational thought.
I feel sad & disgusted that so called evangelical Christians can ‘kidnap’ not orphans, but allegedly children from their families. What Bible do they quote from ? What God do they purport to follow?
Potentially prosleytising mere kids seems horrible! I rejected evangelical Christianity years ago, as having no relevance to Christ’s teachings…..why are they allowed to do it ?
Stop trying to blame this on the religion of these people. Don’t you know this is typically American? Remember Elian Gonzales? Sorry, folks, but I don’t see Christians from other countries doing this kind of thing. This is just another example of typical American arrogance. You’re blind to it.
Margaret,
Thanks for commenting . You are quite right.
Many of us come from a Christian background similar to the Church in the story. We “see” the religious aspects becuase we are intimately aware of how things work within the Church.
Of course in Evangelicalism Americanism and Christianity are joined at the hip. Christian nationalism, manifest destiny, etc are integral parts of American evangelicalism.
Bruce
They had no intention of trafficking in Haitian children……BS
For decades “”"”?????GOOD UPSTANDING CHRISTIANS?????”"” came onto the native reserves and stole children from their homes. They falsified reports on the conditions of the children on the reserves….They lied to the courts and they stole the children from their families (All traits of the GOOD christian Churches That They Represented!!!!!!) From these actions I can see that very little has changed.
The native children who were taken from their reserves faced a life of hell. Some were brutally beaten and terrorized by their captors; some were molested and used as sex slaves; all were stripped of their native languages and heritage….in other words they were put through hell on earth. THOSE THAT SURVIVED TO ADULTHOOD WERE BROKEN PEOPLE…..PEOPLE WITHOUT A HERITAGE….PEOPLE WITHOUT A FAMILY……PEOPLE WITHOUT A LIFE……
I should know for I was one of them that the GOOD CHRISTIANS STOLE!!!!!!!!! From the age of four I was molested on a daily bases….when ever I resisted I faced beatings that left me with permanent scars but the scars that are visible on the outside were only a small part of the damages inflicted by these animals.
Only after fifty years did the government look into the actions that had transpired which is little help for those who were kidnapped and brutalized by the different christian orders but with the actions taken against these animals I can see that a small amount of headway has transpired. My only hope is that these “”"”"FINE UPSTANDING CHRISTIANS????”"”" ARE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW AND ARE SENTENCED TO THE MAXIMUM THAT THE LAW WILL ALLOW. THIS MAY BE A DETERRENT TO THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THEIR RELIGIOUS ORDERS AND PREVENT THE INNOCENT CHILDREN FROM BEING KIDNAPPED AND BRUTALIZED BY THE SO CALLED CHRISTIAN ANIMALS OF THE WORLD.
The Windwalker
Michael, are you talking about having been molested by Catholic priests on a reservation? That’s what I’m guessing from what you’ve written. The little I know about that comes from William Lobdell’s book and articles:
http://williamlobdell.com/
But it’s a mistake to extrapolate from that to just anyone who uses the Christian label, anymore than it is to believe that all injuns are alike. I don’t think any of the former Christians here will tell you that they used to be in favor of what you’re describing.
This WSJ article seems plausible, confirming a few guesses I’d had:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703357104575045794048725562.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories
I at first thought these people intended to try and take the kids to Idaho, where some other shelter was being planned, but this says they were going to stay in a hotel in Magante, maybe 350 miles away, pending the construction of a permanent shelter. So far, I see no evidence of this church group having plotted to sell these kids as sex slaves, or whatever, and I’m sure such a plan wouldn’t have inspired too many donations at their church.
People are all too willing to attribute the most sinister of motives to Christians who run afoul of their own holy books – the bodies of secular laws (which are simply laughable in a corrupt, “you get only the justice you pay for” place like Haiti) they themselves wouldn’t even fully abide by, if it seemed wrong for them to do so. Much like Christians did when they were in charge, persecuting people over “heresies.”
I always think of Eric Hoffer’s The True Believer, wherein he describes a kind of self-righteous and destructive fervency that easily adapts itself to changing belief systems.
Let’s cut these people some slack. They were certainly naive, but I doubt they knowingly were “kidnappers.” It just doesn’t make sense to pursue such an ambitious and costly project and then to derail it by doing such a thing. Kidnappers/traffickers aren’t usually so open about what they do.
Yes…..just like the criminals (Fine Upstanding Christians) who stole the life blood from the reserve is Canada….(They were going to place them in ?????GOOD CHRISTIAN HOMES????
They have shown the same attitudes as their forfathers….lies and deception is very prevelent within the so called christian society. This time the bastards got cought.
I hope that they get the maximum sentence that the law can provide and that their supporters are treated likewise.
A survivor of Christian Lies and Brutality.
Michael Saunders (The Windwalker)
YES, AT A RESIDENCY SCHOOL WHERE I WAS PLACED WHEN i WAS PLACED WHEN I WAS FOUR…..I AND SEVEN OF MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS WERE TAKEN FROM THE RESERVE BY CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES AND PLACED IN WHITE CHRISTIAN HOMES. THERE WE WERE TREATED LIKE SECOND CLASS PEOPLE…..AND MORE LIKE SLAVES AND THEIR PERSONAL SERVENTS. WE WERE CONSTANTLY REFERED TO AS THE LOW LIFE INDIANS THAT WERE RESCUED FROM THE PAGEN LIFESTYLE OF THE RESERVE. NOT ONCE WERE WE TREATED AS IF WE WERE ONE OF THEIR FAMILY.
I FEEL THAT THEIR ONLY CONCERN WAS CONVERTING US TO CHRISTIANITY AND THEN WE WERE SHOWN BY THEIR ACTIONS THAT WE COULD NEVER MEASURE UP…..TO THEM WE WER NOTHING BUT DIRTY INDIANS.
THE CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES WHO TOOK US STATED THAT OUR HOME INVIROMENT WAS TOTALLY INFERIER AND THAT OUR PARENTS COULDNOT TAKE CARE OF US WHICH WAS A LOAD OF CRAP. THE ENVIROMENT THAT WE WERE PLACED IN PROVED MUCH WORSE. THE GIRLS WERE LIVING UNDER A CONSTANT TREAT OF SEXUAL AND PHYICAL ABUSE AND THE BOYS WERE IN NO BETTER SHAPE. PERSONALLY I WAS RAPED AT THE SCHOOL BY THE CATHOLIC PRIESTS AND FACED THE SAME WHEN, DURING THE SUMMER MONTHS, FROM MY FOSTER FAMILY. OF THE EIGHT OF US THAT WERE TAKEN FROM MY FAMILY TWO DIED FROM THE TREATMENT THAT THEY RECIEVED. THE REST OF US SUFFERED BOTH PHYICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY. I’M 62 YEWARS OLD NOW AND STILL HAVE NIGHTMARES AND EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS DUE TO THE TREATMENT THAT I FACED FROM BOTH THE INDIAN SCHOOL AND THE FAMILY THAT I WAS PLACED WITH.
MICHAEL SAUNDERS (thewindwalker)
Seeing those little children taken off the bus just broke my heart. They had the 2 month old baby in their possession and those other little children who could barely walk, so sick and worn out. They had the children cramped onto the bus, crying for their parent, dehydrated, hungry and thirsty. How could they do that? This reminds me of how Americans stole people from their native land in Africa and other nations. Thank you Jesus, these people got caught. I pray that this will be an example to others who come into any country to steal children and adults. They say they do this in the name of Jesus: Liars! Then to sing “Amazing Grace” the same song that Issac Newton sang on his slave ships I hope these people live the rest of their lives in a Haitian Prison.
These animals do not care about the destruction that they cause. I remember how my brothers and sisters acted when they were stolen (rescued from the devastating conditions that existed on the reserves) from their parents by so called church members. Most of the children taken by these ?????”"”"CHRISTIAN”"”"”????? missionaries faces a life bound for total destruction. Torn from their families, their language, their homes, their identity and their heritage they struggled to cope in a completely foreign environment. One of my sisters, who was taken when she was four years old was repeatedly raped and beaten by the ????”"”"GOOD CHRISTIAN”"”????? family that she was placed with. She died when she was eleven after the barbarian tried to abort a child that she had conceived through these rapes. The list of barbaric behavior is endless concerning the treatment of those removed by the religious orders…..
One of you stated that it was only the catholic priests that committed these crimes against the native children…….This is totally wrong for almost every christian order was involved in these acts. For your information the catholic priests were involved in the schools that were run by the government (And they did their fair share of damages but the greatest amount of offenses were committed by the christian missionaries who were spreading their poison in the name of their barbaric religion.
Like in Haiti, they removed the children with promises of a better life. And like this group of criminals they lied to the parents and guardians about where the children were going and how they were going to be taken care of……typical deceptions of a christian order who cannot be believed nor trusted.
Personally I would never trust any member of the so called christian church…..time and time again they have proven themselves to be lairs and hypocrites who’s only obligation is to provide for their own sick ideals.
The Windwalker
The whole baptist movement is built on arrogance. They scream at the top of their voices that they’re saved and you’re not. Unfortunately, they’re not saved from arrogance and pride!
I don’t know if Baptists alone are arrogant
BUT I know the Independent Baptists of my youth and ministry were. We turned arrogance into a fine art.
We didn’t even think some of the saved Baptists were really saved.
Bruce
Yes, this is so typical of Baptists or Evangelicals who go into other nations and arrogantly attempt to convert native people into believing the germanized and anglosized versions of the bible such as the KJV and NIV. Wake up North America!
Count me among evangelical Christians who find the actions of these people very disturbing. I do know that sometimes, “church work” can be a cover for more ulterior motives. Obviously we don’t know all the facts in this situation but I don’t think anyone who calls him/herself a “Christian missionary” should be given a free pass just because of the title. I am glad that this is being investigated.
God bless the many true-hearted missionaries and volunteer workers in Haiti and elsewhere. If these people fall into that category, God bless them too. If not.. may the truth come out.
So far I give them the benefit of the doubt. Arrogant and stupid but not deliberately criminal.
That said the evil that lies behind the curtain in the Church is enormous. Granted we live a an evil world. However the Church says “we are good. Trusts us.”
I pastored my fist Church in 1979 and my last Church in 2003. The difference between the two is astronomical.. In 1979 we trusted everyone. 2003? We trusted no one. In the last Church I pastored we built new Sunday school rooms. Every new room had a window built into it so someone could see in the room at at any time. No more “trusting” anyone.
I miss the old days somewhat but I also realize that the “trusting” Church is an easy place for perverts and crooks to hide.
Bruce
The apostasy of the church is growing at unbelievable rates! God revealed it would in the last days. It saddens my heart that Central Valley Baptist Church, here in Meridian, fully supports these so-called ten missionaries and even have a fund established at US Bank for them, “10 American Support Fund.” Please watch video: http://www.ktvb.com/home/Meridian-pastor-releases-statement-about-detained-church-members-83688537.html
I have to ask how much filthy lucre are these incarcerated people and Central Valley Bible Church going to gain? Will it pay off Laura Silsby’s debts? Sisby was spearheading this mission. She has a reputation for not paying her employees and is due in court. “Silsby has been the subject of eight civil lawsuits and 14 unpaid wage claims. The $358,000 Meridian house at which she founded her nonprofit New Life Children’s Refuge in November was foreclosed upon in December. A check of Silsby’s driving record revealed at least nine traffic citations since 1997, including four for failing to provide insurance or register annually…Beer & Cain, a Boise law firm, filed a civil suit against Silsby in January this year. The suit says Silsby owes the firm $4,526.59 and interest for services rendered. “The demand for payment was made on May 20, 2008, February 4, 2009, and April 3, 2009,” the suit says.” http://www.idahostatesman.com/localnews/story/1067267.html
God proclaims Christians are not to associate with anyone who is covetous or a swindler, 1 Corinthians 5:10 and I believe these incarcerated people fall into this category from all the distressing facts. Some may be innocent, but I don’t see how. I would assume they would have looked into the reputation of one taking them on such a mission. All these people attempted to take 2/3 of these children from their parents. “Most of the children were from the village of Callebas, where people said they handed the kids over because they couldn’t feed or clothe them. Their stories contradicted Silsby’s account that the children came from collapsed orphanages or were handed over by distant relatives.” Silsby’s account is what Central Valley Baptist Church proclaims regarding the highjacking of these orphans.
These charged people were presenting a resort-like haven to parents so they would forfeit their children. The pics included a photo of a nice swimming pool. They were advertising their wicked pursuits to take children unlawfully. Yes, it was unlawful and Sisby lied about having all the correct papers. I do not think it is wrong to assume that people were going to pay a hefty price to obtain so-called orphans, analyzing Silsby’s reputation.
The Bible books of Acts, Timothy and Titus, make it abundantly clear regarding ministry leaders. Anyone who is placed to head any leadership endeavor in a church is to be a man and he must be one who is above reproach in every way. He must be one who maintains a heart like Stephen (Acts chapters 6-7). Stephen was not worldly-minded. He never brought stupid and silly ways into the church. He never came across as unwise and ungodly. Stephen was a powerful preacher who took the Gospel in shoe leather outside the doors of the church. He preached to the unsaved and convicted the unsaved of sin, resulting in this godly man greeting death. He was a deacon and he represents the heart of every true deacon.
A deacon is an overseer of ministries under a pastor. Deacons must meet all the criteria stated in Scripture. This includes being full of the Spirit and of wisdom—knowing and applying the Scriptures. They cannot be divorced. They must have a good reputation in the community; having their households in order, etc. They cannot be sensually minded or flirtatious. Our congregations need countless Stephens to assure everything in the realm of the church is structured on a high Scriptural plane not on a carnal, fleshly level. Everything performed must be backed with the Word of God not the ways of society!
Godly men must oversee all the missions of the church. Everything is to be executed in orderliness and in obedience to the apostles’ teachings—Acts 2:42, 2 Peter 3:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, etc.
Women who serve under pastors and deacons must be shamefaced—dressing in modesty, in bashfulness towards men and in fear of God. They are not to be showing off their cleavage or legs. They are to be silent in the church, exampling a quiet and gentle spirit. They are to walk in total obedience to the Word of God without dissenting agendas.
Biblical qualifications have been thrown out the door of America’s churches including Central Valley Bible Church. May all our churches wake-up and turn to the Jesus Christ of the Bible, not a false christ of man’s making. The church is to shine brightly in this world that needs a Savior.
Val Lee (Author of Cliques in the Church, Apostasy in the Church, and Queen Esther/Looming Holocaust—see Amazon.com. All three books can be read at: http://vallee7.wordpress.com/. I also write and submit photos for Lee’s Birdwatching Adventures Plus “Through the Looking Glass of Val Lee”)
These people and their followers are Evangelical Christians….they are not to be mistaken and or classified in any way to Christianity. They are nothing but an offbeat sect that follows their own twisted interpretation of the bible. Just why they are allowed to exist and to practice their degenerate practices is beyond me.
WHAT GETS ME MORE THOUGH IS THE RANK AND FILE OF SO CALLED CHRISTIANS WHO FOLLOW THEM IN A ZOMBIE LIKE REGALEMENT!!!!!!
Time and time again I have seen these animals practicing their deranged religious practices and I WONDER JUST WHY WOULD ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN FOLLOW THEM?????
Michael Saunders (The Windwalker)
How can this people be so stupid ? Just a big mix of arrogant, stupid, ignorant ! Dont be surprised “dear american” about what the rest of the world think about you. You can not do everythink you wont under the cover of war and relegion!
Just look at your country and all the stuff you need to clean first, you will have some jobs to do for the next 300 years. I’m proud to be swiss and not american.
With statements such as “help them as they seek to resist the accusations of Satan and the lies that he would want them to believe and the fears that he would want to plant into their heart.”…just goes to show the total arrogance and blatant hydroxide of those who mascaraed as “”"???CHRISTIANS???”"” They utilized the same rheum of arrogance whenever they are questioned and or challenged with their twisted sick idealism. Any time that anyone questions their actions or dare to go against their twisted ideals they try and label their opponents as the workings of “”"???SATAN???”"” The only satanic idealism that is being portrayed is their own actions which are condemned by every civilized person in the world. Their cult, the total Evangelical church movement, should be banned and their membership exiled.
The Windwalker
After reading all of the comments it really saddens me. I am a christian. I am sorry for the situation the people are in and regardless of their intentions, there is really no rationale that can explain it. But I am equally sorry for the level of emotion I have read and I do not propose to put myself in anyones shoes or past, but please hear this, do not propose to put yourself in my shoes either in any reply. Three things of all the comments stick out. And amazingly they are the three things ancient in its origin. We all have it. Pride.
1st. There is no middle ground on opinions, we either hang them all or forgive them all. That is the exact reason these people are there so how are we any different. They are convinced of their morale high ground just as most in this blog seem to be.
2nd, There is a lot of strong emotion which is to be expected when giving an opinion from the heart about how you feel regarding your life experiences and exposures to what everyone seems to be trying to relate to from their own point of view. This is reasonable. I too suffer from past commissions against me and I can get worked up. But that anger is directed at the people who actually did these things to me, not everyone else by the same name.
3rd. clearly there is a lot of scripture being used to condemn, ironically this is apparently the same thing that these people used to justify their actions. So who is right?
The one commment I read is really what the issue is. Someone wrote what is judgement and what does that mean? I think you have to read the entire scripture and depending on the version the exact wording may be different. The crux is this, you should be discerning on any issue, test all of the saints, but…..judge only by the same measure in which you wish to be judged. Specifically when truthfully, none of us really knows what happened except those people and the others involved. I would not begin to apologize for them. I have served on numerous short term missions projects and the rule is always, obey the local laws and customs. On that, there is no exception. Another person wrote give to Cesar what is Cesars’, yes that had to do with taxes but it also had to do with obedience, not active rebellion. The pharisees were trying to trick Jesus so the context may not be the right application. In Gethsemane, Peter, the rock on whom Jesus said the church would be built, Peter drew his sword and cut the ear off of one of the people coming to arrest him, They were the rule of law and Peter was in open defiance to protrect Jesus, a rather silly thing to begin with, but in the heat of the moment, Peter forgot who Jesus was. And Jesus said to him, What are you doing? put the sword away. and then healed the man. But Peter was not condemned, Jesus knew his heart and intentions were for good though misguided. He corrected him, and then went willingly to his death for all of you and me and the children in Haiti.
We are all human, even the Christians, and there are definitely many Sunday morning Christians who give the true believers a bad name, and unfortunately they make it into leadership and do on occasion comment heinous acts for which they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law but unfortunately are not always. Especially acts against children. But in formulating your opinions, remember for every one bad act committed by a “christian” do you know how many good acts have been done,obiding by the law, in the true teaching of Christ? How many of you have been a recepient of some of these actions?
I am not saying what was done was right. I am not making any type of intercession for their actions but for their persons. I think there could be a book, but while not expected, it would equally not surprise me if it was written from a far different view that the one being placed upon these people.
One final thing, how many of you have been in the middle of a situation like this? In a country where there is little rule of law you can depend upon in the best of times, just imagine what it was like when these people first got there. (I recognize the intent regardless) It was much different then than now clean and sanitized on the news. Remember the pictures from Katrina? That was our country, how many of you were even trying to help? That is not a condemnation. We are all, GLOBAL unworthy to even call ourselves Christians, to be allowed that privilege, All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. These people are paying for their crime. Put yourself in their shoes. They are labeled for life. Some will without doubt hold them as saints, pious and righteous, but is more wrong than the ones who condemn them to a life of misery? Who is morally right there. I have been in a foreign jail fortunatley not as a guest. But imagine a few weeks in jail there with no contact. That is not even close to what the overwhelming majority of us can even comprehend. Remember, they don’t know if they will get out. They don’t have CNN to give them warm fuzzies on the progress of their situation. They were wrong. And they may have to spend some more time in jail. But the rhetoric in this blog is what is really wrong, not what is right in America. I agree with at least one thing Bruce said. I too miss the days when it was “safe”. But things happened then as well they were just not on the news and people were dealt with based on their own actions or unfortunatley they were swept under the rug so not to “offend”. In the movie Trading Places, Winthorp having been setup, arrested and bailed out returns to the private club for help from his “friends”. Their response was, “it shows incredibly poor taste for you to come here and embarass us like this”. Some friends. They knew him but leaped to the conclusion he was guilty because they “knew” the facts.
We ALL seek the moral high ground of anonimity. I am not saying your names are not true, I mean the idea of complaining and criticizing without making any effort to be a part of the solution. We have made our share of mistakes as a country and unfortunately as long as humans are involved we will continue to a greater or lessor degree. But read the history of every country in the world, ALL are guilty, ALL fall short. That is not an excuse but a fact. And we cannot escape the fact that if it is so bad here why do so many keep coming, but more importantly why don’t more leave?
The Lords Prayer which even the non-believers seem to be able to conjure up in a crisis says “Lord forgive us, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. You may not be a christian, but there is a God and there is a Judgement and we will all be judged by His standard not ours. And if by some chance you just die and thats it, what have you to show for your work. Compaint and judgement, or trying to do something positive to help someone else? I say all of this knowing I am just as guilty as the next. Clearly there were mistakes made, and some may have willingly made them, but we do not “know” because we read it on a blog or on the internet. Just go to http://www.urbanlegends.com to see that. Mat 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. Just trying to be a small part of the solution.
We ALL seek the moral high ground of anonymity. I am not saying your names are not true, I mean the idea of complaining and criticizing without making any effort to be a part of the solution. We have made our share of mistakes as a country and unfortunately as long as humans are involved we will continue to a greater or lessor degree. But read the history of every country in the world, ALL are guilty, ALL fall short. That is not an excuse but a fact. And we cannot escape the fact that if it is so bad here why do so many keep coming, but more importantly why don’t more leave?
Most people who comment here do not do so anonymously. I, for one, have never written with a pseudonym. (though several people have questioned whether or not Bruce is my “real” name) LOL
The fact that bad exists is not reason for us to be silent about it. My part of the solution is to write. Maybe your part is to do something else. I do not see these missionaries in as pure of light as you do. I know where they come from, how they have been taught. I have suspicions about heir agenda. Their actions demonstrate many of things that are wrong in American Christianity and American right-wing conservatism. (exceptionalism for example)
I need to be clear. This is not a Christian blog. Quoting Bible verses, warnings of judgment, etc usually fall on deaf ears. I don’t worship your God or believe your Bible. That said…….I do have legitimate concerns about that actions of these missionaries and the attitudes their actions betray.
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
Um… I finally bothered to click through to the main story, and I see that there’s more to this than I’d known:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hXMGWZBrMDnfgeV4c2WQaJPRjsdw
“”One (9-year-old) girl was crying, and saying, ‘I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.’ And she thought she was going on a summer camp or a boarding school or something like that,” said George Willeit, a spokesman for the SOS Children’s Village.”
Whatever other merits there are of trying to adopt out such children without papers, if it’s really the case that some of these kids have living parents who didn’t abandon them, these people sure did a dumb thing here, to say the least.
Might I ask,since you brought up the Romanian Issue, just how many of the so called orphans from there landed in “”"???GOOD CHRISTIAN HOMES???”"” and how many ended up in child porn flicks????? or where molested and physically abused by their “”"????CHRISTIAN????”"” ???parents???? who adopted them????
Just how many of them, when the novelty of “”"????having one of them in the family???”"” wore off, were abandoned or cast aside like yesterdays garbage?????
HOW MANY ARE WONDERING THE STREETS STRIPPED OF EVERYTHING THAT ONE VALUES….RE/ FAMILY, A HOME, A HERITAGE, A COUNTRY????? AND WHERE ARE THE ????GOOD CHRISTIANS WHEN THIS HAPPENS???”"”
Or do they look for another group to exploit????
The Windwalker
I’m of course referring to this avatar I’m stuck with…
Geez, Windwalker, if Christians were anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be, all the ex-Christians here would be seconding everything you say, and saying they had been molesters themselves, until they saw the light.
I’ve got plenty of issues with fundies (and I more or less used to be one), but if what you say had been the rule, I think I’d have noticed.
John Upton has a YouTube channel. I don’t know him, but it seems he’s also taken a step back from what he used to believe. Yet he’s still proud of what he did as a Christian with those Romanian orphans. I don’t want to drag him into this contentious debate, but maybe he’d like to add something.
my contact is windwalk@mts.net
Did you know the other Michael Saunders/Standingwolf?
A story this big should be on the web. I’ll pass it around, if you can point me to it.
Why don’t you ask some of the children who were taken from their homes and sent to the so called christian homes??????
Why don’t you question the young children who have been molested and terrorized then abandoned like yesterdays garbage when the novelty of having one of them in the good christian households\?????
Why don’t you question the children who are degraded and abused never being able to measure up to the so called higher standards of their christian abductors?????
Then ask yourself if they are the standard that places themselves above the rest of the world!!!!!!
So far my group has been able to identify three children who are being abused and degraded in child porn flicks….and guess where they come from…..the intentions of fine upstanding missionaries who promised the good life in a fine upstanding christian home to the parents of these children when they were abducted under the guise of Christianity!!!!!!! And these are only the tip of the iceburg!!!!!
Michael Saunders (The Windwalker)
Michael,
I have appreciated your comments.
They are a reminder of the institutional violence that has been perpetrated on whole classes of people in this country.
Native Americans have every right to be angry. I used to have books in my library written by Christian pastors who justified the annihilation of the American Indian race because God had a greater purpose for this land. It was convert or die. It was become white or die.
Of course this has happened all over the world. Whenever religion has the power of the state it never turns out well.
Bruce