Mar 17 2010
Life, Religion Bruce Gerencser, Christianity, Friendship, Leaving Christianity, Leaving the Christian Church, Leaving the Ministry
Many of the readers of Restless Wanderings are former Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christians. Some readers are on a journey and find themselves somewhere between faith and faithless. Other readers label themselves as spiritual, agnostic, or atheist.
As we move away from Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christianity we leave behind family and friends who are still Christian. One of the most difficult things we face is how to deal with Christian family and friends now that we are no longer a part of the Christian faith.
Is it possible to have Christian friends? Is it possible to maintain a good relationship with family members who are Christian?
Many of us remember the exuberance we had when we first trusted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. New converts often have a spiritual high that lasts for a long time. New converts are much more likely to witness to non-Christians than people who have been Christians for a long time.
So it is when a person leaves the Christian faith. Often they are angry, filled with regret. Many times they have been spiritually abused by a pastor or a church. Sometimes, after careful study of the Bible, they come to the conclusion that they have been lied to, that the Bible is, at best a work of fiction, and at worst a book that has been used to manipulate and destroy people.
To some degree the new non-Christian has had a born-again experience. I tell people that I have been born again into humanity. Often people are excited about their new found non-faith faith. And just like the new Christian they want to share their new found beliefs with others.
Granted there are some differences between the new Christian and the new non-Christian. The new Christian believes in heaven and hell. The new Christian believes there is one God, one book, and one salvation. Unless a person embraces the new convert’s faith hell awaits them.
The new non-Christian has a broad worldview. It is a live and let live worldview. While the new non-Christian is excited about what they have come to believe they don’t believe someone is going to heaven or hell if they don’t embrace the new non-Christian’s beliefs.
The Christian, young or old is duty bound to share their faith with others. Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERYONE. (and everyone includes those who used to be practicing Christians)
The non-Christian is not under any compulsion to evangelize. The non-Christian is often quite content to live out their life without ever sharing what they believe. (unless they are asked. The Christian often shares their faith whether asked or not) As long as Christians do not force their beliefs on the non-Christian they are are not likely to say a word. Each to their own.
Unfortunately, Christians are often not content to live and let live. Believing they have a mandate from God they push their religious beliefs into every sphere of life, public and private. Many Christians are theocrats. They believe America is a Christian nation and that the Bible should be the divine law book for all.
America and many other countries believe in a separation of Church and State. The non-Christian usually demands a strict separation of Church and State. Many Christians, in public, support the separation of Church and State, but in private they espouse a no king but Jesus worldview.
It is in the arena of Church and State issues that non-Christians and Christians butt heads. Non-Christians are determined to keep the Christian Church out of government. While many Christians think that there is not enough Christianity in government many non-Christians believe the opposite, that there is too much Christianity in government.
The non-Christian desires a secular state where everyone is free to worship any god they wish, or worship no god at all. Many Christians believe a secular state is an abomination and an affront to God.
So the battle lines are drawn. As much as the non-Christian just wants to live and let live he is forced into a battle with some Christians. He can not idly sit by while Christians attempt to turn his country unto a Christian Taliban.
And for this reason it is very hard to maintain productive relationships with Christian family and friends once we leave the Christian faith.
I am pro-choice (prior to viability). I support gay rights. I oppose the teaching of creationism in schools. I oppose prayer in school and I oppose the recitation of the pledge of allegiance. I oppose Presidents and government officials being sworn in with their hand on the Bible. I am a socialist. I oppose consumer driven capitalism. I support stripping Churches and pastors of their tax exemption. I oppose the posting of the Ten Commandments and I oppose any and all attempts to make the Bible the law of the land.
I am a liberal and progressive. I support the ACLU. I regularly read magazines like Mother Jones,Harpers, Adbusters, The Progressive, The American Prospect, and Rolling Stone. I am so far left I often meet Jerry Falwell coming around the corner.
Yet, I support religious freedom. I want every person to be free to worship or not worship according to their conscience.
As long as Christians are insistent on evangelizing there will be conflict with non-Christians. As long as our Christian friends push their God there can ever be good relationships.
Yesterday, a friend of mine from many years ago found my blog. I met this man in the 1990’s when he became a member of a Christian Discussion mailing list I sponsored. (CHARIS list) I have not heard from him in a long time.
He left a comment for me. He didn’t try and be nice. He didn’t try to find out how I was. There was no attempt to catch up. No, he just left me two questions:
- Is Jesus Christ the Son of God?
- Is there any other way to God?
And so it goes…
Personally, I have given up any hope of trying to maintain friendships with Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christian friends and family. The constant stress and battling wears on me. You who read this 
blog see the comments that are left by Christian family and friends of mine. Their comments are but the tip of the iceberg. Add private emails, letters, tracts, and books sent to me to the comments on this blog and it all becomes quite overwhelming.
It seems that many of my Christian family and friends can not or will not leave me alone. They think they can win me back to Jesus. They think if they argue with me long enough I will see the light. They seem to think, that after 25 years in the ministry, that I am still lacking some knowledge about the Christian faith, and that if they share that with me I will come running back to Jesus.
Recently, I had one friend try to bully and badger me on this blog. I finally told him to fuck off. It never dawns on some Christians that their bullying and badgering is anything BUT Christ-like. They are trying to win me back to Jesus using methods that Jesus would not approve of.
I am very pessimistic about being able to maintain relationships with Christian family and friends. (especially those of the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Faith)
The only way such relationships work is if there is mutual respect and there are no attempts to evangelize.
Honest, open discussion is one thing. I am quite open about my non-faith faith. I enjoy talking about the Bible, God, Jesus, Atheism, Agnosticism and the world in general. But when the discussion turns to an attempt at converting me or reclaiming me for Jesus I find myself wanting to say “fuck you”.
I am quite willing to accept you where you are in your life. Are you willing to do the same for me? I want relationships based on honesty, openness and mutual respect.
If not…I really don’t want to be your friend, and quite frankly I don’t want to be in your family either.
Life is too short.
Since this is the only life I will have (unless reincarnation is true) I want to spend my life doing things that matter and doing things that I enjoy. Arguing with Christians is not on my list of things to do.
I realize my blog provokes Christians at times. I know my words can be sharp and to the point . That’s the how I write. It is who I am. That said I am not looking for an argument. This blog is my attempt at sharing with you my journey. Those who find my blog most helpful are those who are on a similar journey.
To my Christian family and friends I say this:
If you want to be my friend, if you want me to be a part of the family, then you are going to have to take me as I am. Just as I am, without one plea from you.
If you can’t do that?
It’s been good knowing you.
Mar 15 2010
Religion Change, Christianity, Jesus, Jesus Changes People, Jesus is the Answer, Life Changing Experience
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17
One of the hallmarks of the evangelical Christian faith is that when a person becomes a Christian, is born again, trusts Christ by faith, they become a new person.
Old things pass away and all things become new. There is new life in Christ.
Are you a drunkard? Are you a thief? Are you a whore monger? Are you a drug addict? Are you a Democrat? Did you vote for Obama? Are you a murderer? Are you a child abuser? Are you an Episcopalian? Are you a Catholic? Are you a prostitute?
No matter what you have done in your life, no matter what sin you may have committed, Jesus can wipe all your sin away and give you a new life.
Simply put, Jesus changes people.
I don’t believe Jesus changes anyone.
People do change, though they do not change as often as we like to think they do. Sometimes people make dramatic course corrections in their lives and the change is quite dramatic.
But was it Jesus that changed them, or did they by an act of the will change themselves?
I realize there is all kinds of anecdotal evidence that suggests that Jesus changes people. Alcoholics set free. Drug addict’s clean. Democrats turned Republican. Sexual deviants set free. Adulterers and fornicators now living a life of moral purity.
But how do we know that it was Jesus that changed them? Can we point to any empirical data that says for certain that Jesus changed them? Perhaps they got tired of the life they were living and wanted to change it. Often, when people want to change their life they go to church. After all churches are in the life-changing business. So the desire to change links up with the place you go to change your life and viola Jesus changes lives.
The unsaved are told that without Jesus change is impossible. After all, can a leopard change its spots? Of course not. It takes a supernatural, miraculous act of God for a persons life change.
Yet, there are millions of people who have made dramatic changes in their lives without Jesus being the changing force. Their lives seem to stand in direct contradiction to what the Christian church says about Jesus. What are we to make of this?
I am convinced people change because they want to. Life altering changes happen when a person realizes that they are on a destructive path and they no longer want to be on that path. By an act of the will, often with the help of others, they turn (repent) and go another direction.
Sometimes we have an epiphany. Often these epiphanies are found in a social, religious, or political context. I was a Republican for a number of years until one day I realized that what I believed about social justice did not line up with what the Republican Party believed. At that moment I went from being a right-wing Republican to a liberal Democrat. Granted much of the change was gradual but there was a moment in time where I said I once was lost but now I am found.
The same could be said concerning my defection from the Christian faith. While that defection took many years, there was a point, a moment in time, where I had a born-again experience. I was born once again into the family called humanity. There is nothing mystical about this change. There was no Jesus, no God, and no church. I made a choice. Just like when I made a choice to follow Jesus, I made a choice not to follow him anymore.
We all make choices. Sometimes we make choices that alter and change our lives forever. There is no need to spiritualize these changes.
On the other hand, people do not change as often as we think they do. Having pastored thousands of people over the years, and watched scores of people trust Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, I know that change does not occur as often as the Christian church would have us believe.
The reason for this is quite simple. We are what we are. Change is hard, and in many cases impossible. I am 52 years of age and in many ways I am no different than I was at age 18. I’m certainly more experienced, more cynical, and more jaded about life now than I was at age 18, but many of my character traits have remained unchanged over all these years.
I am moody. I’m temperamental. I’m cynical. I’m a half glass full type of person. I am easily depressed. I’m quick with my words and quick with my judgments. As much as I try to change some of these character traits, I, for the most part, remain just like I always have been.
My politics have changed. My religious beliefs have changed. My worldview has changed. But underneath all of this I remain fundamentally the same person I always have been.
One key to a successful marriage is to realize you can’t change your spouse. For years I tried to change my wife. You know, those annoying character traits that drive you crazy.
My wife is pretty forgetful. I finally got her to write things on a list and now she forgets where she put the list. I am a person that can have 12 things to do and I’m able to make a mental list of those things. I don’t need to write them down. (Though getting older has forced me to write things down a bit more)
Somewhere along the way I realized that I can’t change my wife into me. She is who she is, and I am who I am. We each have character flaws that annoy the hell out of each other. We have learned to accept each other as we are.
I wonder how much better the Christian church would be if that’s how they treated each other. Instead of a cookie-cutter approach, that says if you are born again this is what your life looks like, I wonder how much better the church would be if every person was allowed to be who and what they really are.
Over the years I pastored a number of people who lived secret lives of deception. They were forced to. We preached Jesus makes all things new. Yet, their lives were anything but new. They had a religious experience to be sure. They believed something had happened to them. But, to a large degree their lives remained the same.
The sins that they practiced openly before were driven underground. I remember one lady who testified before the whole Church that she had quit smoking. After all Jesus makes all things new and that includes giving up cigarettes. We were all quite proud of her. Unfortunately it was all a lie. She never quit smoking at all. She couldn’t. She was addicted and all the Jesus in the world couldn’t help her with her addiction.
If I’m honest I lived my life the same way when I was a pastor, when I was a Christian. I knew what was expected of me. I knew what the new life in Christ was supposed to look like. The Bible was the standard. So outwardly I conformed. I looked the part. I played the game with the best of them.
But inwardly, I was still the same old Bruce. Yes Jesus was my savior, but Bruce was still the master. While many things did change in my life, especially around the periphery, I did not change much at the fundamental level of my being. I realize some people will say this is a clear sign that I was never born again to start with. Perhaps. I am more inclined to believe that every Christian is, and was, just like me.
When we join any group we are expected to conform to the standard of the group. In this regard the Christian church is no different than any other social or cultural group. People want to belong, they want to feel a part of, so they conform to the expected standard.
Newspapers are littered with stories about Christians gone bad. While many people find these stories quite shocking I do not.
Jesus is portrayed as a life changer. Jesus fixes what ails you. Jesus is the answer to your problem. When a person becomes a Christian they are told that they have a new life. Everything is now new. It sounds great, but unfortunately it is a false bill of goods.
The new convert goes home excited after finding new life in Jesus. For a time they have what is called the honeymoon experience with Jesus. Everything seems to go right. Prayers seen answered. The Bible seems written just for them. Every church service seems like manna sent from heaven by God.
Then one day reality sets in. Desires and habits start to reassert themselves. Those character traits, drowning in a sea of Bible preaching, come up for air and begin making themselves known once again.
At this point the new convert panics. “I thought my life was supposed to be new with Jesus”, they find themselves asking. They often find themselves being pulled back into their old life, their old ways, their old habits and desires.
So they seek out counsel. They talk to the pastor or other church members about the problem they’re having. The new convert is assured that this is quite normal and that they just need to keep resisting Satan and denying the flesh.
This battle goes on for quite some time until one day the new convert realizes that this is an impossible way to live, and at this moment a life of deception begins.
The façade is built for all to see but inwardly dwells the same person. For some people this will be their life until the day they die. Outwardly they will look just like every other Christian. Outwardly they will do what Christians do. But inwardly they remained just who they always have been.
It seems Jesus is pretty good at changing clothing but not so good at changing the inner person.
The church would be better served if everyone could just be themselves. Broken, feeble, frail, marred, and sinful. The church would be a better place if losers were allowed to be members. As it stands now Jesus makes everyone a winner. The church is a place for overcomers. After all don’t we all have victory in Jesus?
I’m quite convinced that Jesus changes no one. If your life is changed it is because you chose to make a change. You chose a different path. You chose a different lifestyle. You may have found inspiration from the church, the Bible, or the life of Jesus, but none of those things changed you. You changed because you chose to change.
I’m sure this will make many a Christian howling mad. But it is how I see things from my seat in the pew.
Mar 13 2010
Religion Dan Sherwood, Evangelist, King James Only, Old Paths Baptist
Old Paths Baptist Preacher Dan Sherwood describes himself as:
WE ARE ASKING FOR THE OLD PATHS AS GOD TOLD US TO DO IN JEREMIAH 6:16. WE ARE INDEPENDENT, UNAFFILIATED, UNREGISTERED, KING JAMES BIBLE PREACHING, SINNER LOVING, SIN HATING, SAINT EXHORTING, SAVIOUR EXALTING, SOLD OUT, SEPARATED, SET APART, IN LOVE WITH JESUS, GOD CALLED, CHURCH SENT, CHURCH PLANTING, BAPTIST, MISSIONARY, EVANGELIST, PREACHER TO RAPID CITY, SOUTH DAKOTA, TRYING TO REACH THE UNREACHED NORTH WESTERN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WITH THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, BY THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE BIBLE IN ENGLISH, THROUGH THE ONE AND ONLY MEANS THAT GOD USES, AND THROUGH THE ONLY INSTITUTION THAT HE STARTED – THE LOCAL NEW TESTAMENT BAPTIST CHURCH WITH A BAPTIST HERITAGE.
In a fundraising letter sent out to Churches Sherwood writes:
I would like the opportunity to introduce to you, my family, and the work that the Lord has called me to. I am an Independent, Fundamental, Local Church, New Testament, King James Bible Preaching, Evangelizing, BAPTIST, Missionary Preacher.
I am burdened for Our Country America. I served in the United States Marine Corps four years, and if you cut me I would probably bleed Red, White, and Blue. But the sad fact is that our country is in a Real Mess. This Nation is literally being turned into Hell, as a Nation that has forgotten God, and has turned away from the God of it’s Youth. I have answered the Call from God to preach the truth to America. The Son & The Truth are the Only things that will make a man free according to the Word of God. We need Baptist Churches of like faith to financially make it possible to establish churches in the North West….
No need for me to comment. 
HT: Stuff Fundies Like
Mar 13 2010
Life, Religion Immortality, Life After Death, This Is It
From the Church of the Churchless:
Here we are. Living on Earth. As a body (not in a body; immateriality of mind or soul is a belief, not reality).
If there is an afterlife, we don’t know about it, since we’re alive — not dead. The meaning of our existence is founded on our actual life after birth, not our imagined life after death.
Look around. This is it.
This. Is. It.
Drink in that reality. More: get drunk on it. It’s intoxicating. What’s happening never will happen to you again. Not ever. Never.
Miss it, and it’s missed forever. Fail to pay attention to it, and that awareness is gone forever. Neglect to fully appreciate any priceless unrepeatable moment, and we have lost that meaning-richness.
Forever.
Good advice.
Mar 13 2010
Life, Religion God, God Afflicts Us, God is in Control, God Suffering, MS, Multiple Sclerosis, Pain, Suffering
My son related a story to me today from his group counseling session.
The counselor said that God never gives us more than we can stand (handle).
The counselor concluded that people like me, with debilitating diseases, must be closer to God.
The premise? The more we suffer the closer we are to God.
This is akin to a man telling his wife he loves her and then he beats the shit out of her. The more he beats her the more he loves her.
Quite insane thinking if you ask me.
Why would I want to worship and serve a God who afflicts me with pain so I will love him more?
Why would I want to worship a God who afflicts me with MS so I will be closer to him?
God seems like a witch doctor sticking pins in a doll. What kind of God finds pleasure in afflicting those who are helpless?
Personally, I don’t think this God exists. He is a fabrication of the Christian Church in an attempt to explain why God is absent during their suffering.
I have found a god in the midst of my suffering.
My wife and children…
Family….
Friends….
They are the only gods I know.
They are there in the midst of my pain.
They are there when my world is turned upside down.
That other God?
On vacation it seems.
Older Entries
Many of us remember the exuberance we had when we first trusted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. New converts often have a spiritual high that lasts for a long time. New converts are much more likely to witness to non-Christians than people who have been Christians for a long time. 
The Christian, young or old is duty bound to share their faith with others. Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERYONE. (and everyone includes those who used to be practicing Christians)
blog see the comments that are left by Christian family and friends of mine. Their comments are but the tip of the iceberg. Add private emails, letters, tracts, and books sent to me to the comments on this blog and it all becomes quite overwhelming.
Recent Comments